Zack & Deborah Snyder Talk ‘Zack Snyder’s Justice League’ Fandom, Crafting Iconic Openings and More

“Are you looking at the film? or are you just disappointed it’s not the film you thought it was going to be?”

The long-awaited and much-anticipated “Zack Snyder’s Justice League,” more commonly referred to as the “Snyder Cut,” finally releases this Thursday, March 18th, streaming exclusively on HBO Max.

For those unfamiliar, this is the cut of “Justice League” untampered from studio interference or reshoots from Joss Whedon, exemplifying the purest form of Zack Snyder’s original vision for his magnum opus within the DC Extended Universe (DCEU).

Comprised of finished and edited versions of original film from nearly five years ago, about two weeks of minor reshoots, and an added total of only four minutes of extra footage from the original film, “Zack Snyder’s Justice League” sits at a whopping runtime of nearly four hours. The Snyder Cut is very real, and it is finally here.

In publicizing the film, Snyder and his wife, producer Deborah Snyder, took to the press junket to give a roundtable interview with journalists from publications all around the world, including FilmSpeak’s own Griffin Schiller.

Kicking off the interview was a question that is on the entire film world’s mind. Snyder was asked about what the release of his cut means for the relationship between the movie industry and fans, and how streaming services like HBO Max are important for films like this moving forward.

Snyder gave a mixed view on the future of cuts like this. “It’s such a unique case,” said Snyder. “Yes, I think it will have an effect of some kind, but I think the implications might be smaller going forward than ‘This is a new world where the fans decide what movies get made.’ I don’t know if that is the end game here. I do think having the platform like HBO Max really does give an option to otherwise impossible release scenarios.”

Deborah then interjected praising the unique creativity allowed by streaming services. “We love movies and we love going to a theater and watching movies, but with streaming services I think they’re making more bold choices. I mean, we wouldn’t be here today if it wasn’t for a streaming service. There’s so much more content, so, as a producer, I’m happy that movies are getting made today that wouldn’t normally be getting made if it wasn’t for the streaming services. So, I think [the movie theaters and streaming services] both can complement each other and exist together.”

Snyder was then asked about the toxicity noticed in the Snyder Cut fandom, where a select minority of the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut movement were aggressive, hostile, and downright bullying towards those who were not as enthused by the movement. There are still some who believe this sets a bad precedent moving forward and gives fans too much influence.

Deborah took point here in responding to the fandom toxicity and influence. “There might have been a small group that was toxic. I think the majority of fans have done something amazing. Not only did they have a studio pay attention to them, and they allowed this movie to be made, but they raised so much awareness for mental health and for suicide prevention…they’ve raised over a half a million dollars so far. That’s something really positive.”

This must have been an emotional question and response for the Snyders, as most fans already know, Snyder originally dropped out of the post-production of the “Justice League” project to be with his family in the wake of the passing of his daughter, Autumn, to whom this film is dedicated.

Now with two completely different cuts of “Justice League,” between “Zack Snyder’s Justice League” on HBO Max and the 2017 theatrical Whedon cut, Snyder was asked what will happen to the 2017 cut, which of the two is the definitive version, and if they can coexist as two different visions.

Snyder responded with as bittersweet an attitude a creator who had his vision bastardized could. “I think that’s up to the consumer to decide, or Warner Brothers. I like ‘expunging’ it from the record, that sounds cool, like if there was some sort of virus that you could push a button and it could just go and find it all and delete it, but I don’t see that happening.”

With the addition of one wholly new scene added to his cut filmed during the COVID-19 pandemic, Snyder was asked about the experience filming in the pandemic, as well as the importance of adding just this one scene.

Deborah answered the pandemic inquiry. “Shooting it during the pandemic was really challenging, because the studios were just starting to figure it out and the unions were actually just coming together with what the safety requirements were. So we were kind of waiting to have that happen in order to plan the shoot. I think it also was difficult because the actors were in different places, so we didn’t necessarily have everyone together at the same time. We shot for three days, but Ezra [Miller] was in England doing ‘Fantastic Beasts,’ so we had their crew shoot him and Zack directed Ezra over Zoom, so that was really interesting. And even Ben [Affleck] and Jared [Leto]’s schedule didn’t line up and we couldn’t move the shoot any further because we had an enormous amount of visual effects to deliver for that sequence and we had a deadline. We were supposed to deliver everything before Christmas, and we actually pushed it til the end of January so we could drop it in the last minute in order to do all the versions and everything for the service. It was pretty challenging, at the same time it was super fun to be able to do. We hadn’t seen everybody in a long time, and it was nice to see everyone in their costumes and that was a fun moment.”

Snyder went on to discuss the importance of this extra scene, known to include the revitalization of Jared Leto’s interpretation of The Joker alongside Batman in the Knightmare future. “I think that the importance of the scene was that I felt like, you know, my version of the DCEU, that world, Batman exists in that world and Joker exists in that world and they’ve never met. It really seemed cathartic and important to have those guys, who define each other in such a giant way, come into conflict and us to get a little scene between the two of them.”

Snyder, known to be an epic filmmaker, was then asked about the incorporation of the mythological aspects in this film alongside the traditional comic book canon, as well as the influence of two of his favorite films: “Excalibur” and “The Road Warrior.”

Snyder said, “The scales are pretty balanced on the influence of those things in the sense that you can imagine it would be much more weighted on the side of comics, and comic mythology, which it is. But I’m a big lover of mythology in general and I’m a big lover of cinema and those two movies in particular. ‘Excalibur’ really has its roots in what I would consider the creating of a league and sort of, you know, there’s a lot of parallels if you want to say that Superman is Arthur, that’s an easy [one], you can assign him pretty quickly. And ‘Road Warrior’ is just, you know, awesome post-apocalyptic insanity at the most premium scale and level and always an inspiration, you know, when you’re standing in a broken world and you just don’t understand it.”

Snyder was then asked about how the origins of the Warner Bros. fallout came about, which created the need for the Snyder Cut to begin with, and how platforms like Rotten Tomatoes create a toxic environment for creators as studios put so much stock in them. The interviewer cited the negative reviews of Snyder’s “Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice” which currently sits at a 28% on Rotten Tomatoes and a 44% on Metacritic.

Deborah first answered the question discussing the history of how “controversial” creative decisions of Zack’s have since paid off. “I think there was a lot going on at that time, I think obviously it was the reviews, it was such a polarizing movie. I think some people didn’t like their heroes deconstructed and they didn’t realize that we were on our way to build them up, which we saw in this movie. But it’s not very interesting, I think, seeing them start in this glory, like where to go from there, we love the hero’s journey. There was a preconceived notion of what the film should be - it should be funnier, it was too dark - that to me, I think, was hard to read and take because you’re like ‘Are you looking at the film or are you just disappointed it’s not the film you thought it was going to be?’ I think also the last part of it was that, you know, there’s so much riding on these big films, you know, and as opposed to being able to take chances and do things different, I mean I think everything Zack does is taking chances. I mean the casting of Aquaman, even, you know, at the time casting Gal [Gadot]...right now, I think, you can’t imagine anyone else being Wonder Woman or Aquaman but at the time, you know, these were really different choices. And I do think there is this tendency to keep it all rounded and less pokey.”

Snyder then spoke up about one of his most controversial casting decisions that turned into a massive success and defending his creativity from the studio: Batfleck. “Ben as Batman was a hugely controversial thing, if you recall, and everyone was mad about it. Now, when I look at all the surveys, you know look at all these internet surveys, and Ben’s winning all of the surveys. Now, like ‘Who’s your favorite Batman?’ it’s incredible that it’s turned in such a way. I think in some ways it’s like fandom taking back their passions and saying “No look, we’re in it for the long haul.” We tell the studio, look we only know how to make a movie one way and we’ll do our damnedest to do that, and like damn the torpedoes I’m just going to keep trying. I think the studio, they’re a little bit more reactive and they tend to be, like, they’re squeamish. Whereas I’m like look, I made this movie for myself, it’s like a small film, and they’re like “no no it’s a giant film,” and it’s like, you know, we’re demanding a worldwide audience, and I’m like well they’re coming, we just got to let them like, you know, see that this is a long look. This is not going to be over in one quick little vignette. You got to taste the whole thing.”

Deborah concluded the question saying: “With this movie we get to see, especially with Flash, you know, we have a Wonder Woman movie, we have a Superman movie, but we really get a lot of insight into Flash and Cyborg. I think you end up caring about them more because you’ve seen their struggles. For me, I remember, when the Nolans approached us for “Man of Steel”, what I always found interesting was to see some of these flaws, to see them struggle. Superman was a character that was really hard for me to grapple with, because he was this perfect heroic, but to see him figure out who he is and to be on this journey, I’m more fulfilled at the end because of it, and I hope fans will be.”

Finally, Griffin closed out the interview by asking Snyder about the filmmaking behind him choosing his iconic and striking openings and closings to his films, and what the process was behind them as a strong statement to his strengths as a storyteller.

Snyder cited the library of storyboards and drawings from his entire filmography which rested in the bookshelf behind him in the interview, showcasing his deep love and creativity for his projects. “Those sequences, really they start off right away. I’m always thinking about the beginning and ends of the movie. A movie lives and dies on its beginning and ending. I am always super passionate about the openings of movies. The way it happens is, I just draw it in these books. It’s very much exactly the way it’s cut, pretty much. You remember this shot from ‘300’, low angle with the skulls going on top of the thing. All of these books that go all down this bookshelf are like all the drawings of all the movies.”

Interjecting, Deborah said, “And oftentimes, the title sequence is something you draw even before you start drawing the movie, you’ll draw this title sequence.”

Snyder then gave a quick tease as to where fans could see this at play in the near future. “We have a movie that we just finished that comes out in May called ‘Army of the Dead’ and the title sequence of that movie is very specific and I really like went nuts on that title sequence.”

Finishing up the interview with a final comment, Deborah related Snyder’s title sequence art to, arguably, his most infamous and artistic example. “Much as you did in ‘Watchmen’.”

Zack Snyder’s Justice League releases on Thursday, March 18th, streaming exclusively on HBO Max.